Vladimir Putin used the fifth anniversary of the opening of Guantanamo Bay to try and convince the world that Russia is morally superior to the United States:
“Russia, hopefully, will not have a Guantanamo. The world community is marking five years since this camp was formed, where people are held without trial or investigation. It is a lamentable situation,” Putin told the presidential Council for Assisting Civil Society and Human Rights Institutions.
Clearly Putin has forgotten Chechnya, where Russian forces held Chechen prisoners at “filtration points” such as PAP-1 without trial. The investigations carried out there tended to be of the brutal variety.
{ 9 comments }
La Russophobe 01.13.07 at 3:16 am
There are only two reasons for Putin to make these statements: (a) He’s trying to cover Russia’s own barbaric human rights abuses so he can continue or escalate them, even though Russia is already losing 1 million or so people every year and is viewed by most outsiders as uncivilized; (b) he’s seething with KGB-inculcated hatred of America, a country that destroyed the USSR in the last confrontation, a country with twice Russia’s population and four or five times more economic potency.
Now I ask you, which variant poses a more horrid future for Russia?
And then consider this: It’s quite possible both are true.
Aleksandr 01.13.07 at 4:19 pm
I am not aware of and had seen nothing in there that claimed Russia kept Chechen prisoners at filtration points for 5 years with no trials or even investigations? Maybe you can be more specific on this information?
Andy 01.13.07 at 5:24 pm
Aleksandr, there is quite a bit of information around on the net - a google search for PAP-1 will yield quite a few results. In the post above, I’ve linked to a Human Rights Watch article - http://hrw.org/reports/1997/russia2/Russia-04.htm - which gives some further details.
La Russophobe 01.13.07 at 5:38 pm
Aleksandr, perhaps you don’t realize it but the Russian media is utterly enslaved by the Kremlin. The reason Putin knows about Guantanamo is that the American press told him. It’s really quite sickening that Russians are so ready to swallow the Kremlin’s neo-Soviet line that Russia is more observant of human rights in Chechnya than America is in Guantanamo. It’s so because you never hear the victims of Russia’s acts speaking on Russian TV, while we see images of Guantanamo all the time.
Perhaps you also haven’t heard about the kidnappings and torture in Chechnya? Have you ever even spent a minute looking at Amnesty International’s website? Your remarks indicate that Russia is doomed to go right down the same path that the USSR followed. I find that indescribably depressing.
Aleksandr 01.13.07 at 6:38 pm
>>In the post above, I’ve linked to a Human Rights Watch article - http://hrw.org/reports/1997/russia2/Russia-04.htm - which gives some further details.—Andy
I admit my English is not as good as it could be but I have read the report 3 times already and I still do not see it? I noted one guy who claims he was there 13 days and another for 20 days and another says month plus half but no one claimed was in there for even close to 5 yrs? Which name is his and I will will check again?
Andy 01.14.07 at 10:04 pm
Aleksander - I’m not saying that Russia has held anyone at PAP-1, or any other camp for five years, and you are right to say that the HRW report doesn’t say that either.
Instead, I was criticising Putin for condemning the United States for running camps where torture takes place, while Russia is also quite happy to run torture camps when they suit its purposes.
Aleksandr 01.15.07 at 11:05 am
Ok thank you for explaining this. But problem is in looking at the quoted statement in your entry and the link attached
“Russia, hopefully, will not have a Guantanamo. The world community is marking five years since this camp was formed, where people are held without trial or investigation. It is a lamentable situation,” —Putin
I only see him speak of length of time they are held without trial or investigation- length of time seem to be largest concern. I do not see any condemnation of personal treatment or accusation of torture here or criticism of the existance of such camps at all so it does not appear that “Putin has forgotten” anything and that was my point.
Though I do not give much credibilities to some of these supposed human rights organizations- especially HRW- still no one is to believe that unvoluntary stay at a Russian camp is paradise or even very pleasant at all but now everybody else understands US camps is no different. To tell truth the only difference I see here is Russia has not pretended she was or tried to make herself as morally superior to rest of world and if US has any shame at all that maybe some time will pass before they attempt to take up this false position again now that the actual truth is known to the world community- thats all.
La Russophobe 01.16.07 at 12:15 am
Aleksandr, you really are a classic Russian! My jaw is on the floor! You credit 100% of what Vladimir Putin, a proud KGB spy says, and you discount the findings of human rights organizations like Amnesty and HRW. You’re a classic victim of the neo-Soviet Union and a perfect encapsulation of why Russia has a declining population, a $300/month average wage and zero international influence. Wake up man! Before it’s too late!
Russky 02.07.07 at 1:10 pm
The Bush years are such a throbbing bummer for America that they’re making the Carter years look like the ‘84 LA Olympics. The anti-depressant to counteract Bush-Era Reality? Point out that Russia is having the same problems we have–only worse….
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